Cagle releases MSNBC Cartoons on iPhone

Comments ¹⁴

1. Paul Fell

   I’m not sure I understand this. The app is free. Access to the editorial cartoons is free. So how does this benefit Editorial Cartoonists?

   This sounds a lot like the many postings on CraigsList for cartoonists that offer “exposure” and “recognition” as the rewards for working on spec or for free.

   Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to how this could have anything remotely to do with the salvation of the art of editorial cartooning.

   Most of us already give more than enough shit for free. What we need are more paying gigs, not stuff like this.

2. Paul Fell

   Here’s something remotely (or not) related to my earlier post that was put up on the Weisenhemer board earlier today:

   Mike Arnold | profile Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:57 pm CST

   I love when people post these things 🙂 _____________________________

   ARTISTS/ILLUSTRATORS/DESIGNERS/CREATIVES/EMPLOYERS (EVERYWHERE) Date: 2009-12-02, 7:36PM PST Reply to: gigs-yvaun-1492517442@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

   Hello craigslist people please read!

   Every day, there are more and more CL posts seeking “artists” for everything from auto graphics to comic books to corporate logo designs. More people are finding themselves in need of some form of illustrative service.

   But what they’re NOT doing, unfortunately, is realizing how rare someone with these particular talents can be.

   To those who are “seeking artists”, let me ask you; How many people do you know, personally, with the talent and skill to perform the services you need? A dozen? Five? One? …none?

   More than likely, you don’t know any. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be posting on craigslist to find them.

   And this is not really a surprise.

   In this country, there are almost twice as many neurosurgeons as there are professional illustrators. There are eleven times as many certified mechanics. There are SEVENTY times as many people in the IT field.

   So, given that they are less rare, and therefore less in demand, would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free? Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street?

   Would you offer a neurosurgeon the “opportunity” to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor? (Maybe you could offer him “a few bucks” for “materials”. What a deal!)

   Would you be able to seriously even CONSIDER offering your web hosting service the chance to have people see their work, by viewing your website, as their payment for hosting you?

   If you answered “yes” to ANY of the above, you’re obviously insane.

   If you answered “no”, then kudos to you for living in the real world.

   But then tell me… why would you think it is okay to live out the same, delusional, ridiculous fantasy when seeking someone whose abilities are even less in supply than these folks?

   Graphic artists, illustrators, painters, etc., are skilled tradesmen. As such, to consider them as, or deal with them as, anything less than professionals fully deserving of your respect is both insulting and a bad reflection on you as a sane, reasonable person. In short, it makes you look like a twit.

   A few things you need to know;

   1. It is not a “great opportunity” for an artist to have his work seen on your car/’zine/website/bedroom wall, etc. It IS a “great opportunity” for YOU to have their work there.

   2. It is not clever to seek a “student” or “beginner” in an attempt to get work for free. It’s ignorant and insulting. They may be “students”, but that does not mean they don’t deserve to be paid for their hard work. You were a “student” once, too. Would you have taken that job at McDonalds with no pay, because you were learning essential job skills for the real world? Yes, your proposition it JUST as stupid.

   3. The chance to have their name on something that is going to be seen by other people, whether it’s one or one million, is NOT a valid enticement. Neither is the right to add that work to their “portfolio”. They get to do those things ANYWAY, after being paid as they should. It’s not compensation. It’s their right, and it’s a given.

   4. Stop thinking that you’re giving them some great chance to work. Once they skip over your silly ad, as they should, the next ad is usually for someone who lives in the real world, and as such, will pay them. There are far more jobs needing these skills than there are people who possess these skills.

   5. Students DO need “experience”. But they do NOT need to get it by giving their work away. In fact, this does not even offer them the experience they need. Anyone who will not/can not pay them is obviously the type of person or business they should be ashamed to have on their resume anyway. Do you think professional contractors list the “experience” they got while nailing down a loose step at their grandmother’s house when they were seventeen? If you your company or gig was worth listing as desired experience, it would be able to pay for the services it received. The only experience they will get doing free work for you is a lesson learned in what kinds of scrubs they should not lower themselves to deal with.

   6. (This one is FOR the artists out there, please pay attention.) Some will ask you to “submit work for consideration”. They may even be posingas some sort of “contest”. These are almost always scams. They will take the work submitted by many artists seeking to win the “contest”, or be “chosen” for the gig, and find what they like most. They will then usually have someone who works for them, or someone who works incredibly cheap because they have no originality or talent of their own, reproduce that same work, or even just make slight modifications to it, and claim it as their own. You will NOT be paid, you will NOT win the contest. The only people who win, here, are the underhanded folks who run these ads. This is speculative, or “spec”, work. It’s risky at best, and a complete scam at worst. I urge you to avoid it, completely. For more information on this subject, please visit [link]

   So to artists/designers/illustrators looking for work, do everyone a favor, ESPECIALLY yourselves, and avoid people who do not intend to pay you. Whether they are “spec” gigs, or just some guy who wants a free mural on his living room walls. They need you. You do NOT need them.

   And for those who are looking for someone to do work for free… please wake up and join the real world. The only thing you’re accomplishing is to insult those with the skills you need. Get a clue.

   Please copy and repost daily so that our profession may be respected.

   * Location: EVERYWHERE * it’s NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests * Compensation: the value of your skills

   PostingID: 1492517442

3. Anne Hambrock

   While the app is free, I find it hard to believe compensation isn’t happening somewhere. Tom Richmond recently famously did 540 caricatures for an app (first rejected, then accepted) but he did not do that work for free. He was paid by the gentleman proposing the app to apple. I have to assume apple paid for the rights to the app or the whole thing would be a pointless exercise. Are the cartoonists being paid first by MSNBC or the papers from which the content is being taken? If so, this could be a great revenue stream for cartoonists. If not, well – see everything posted above – hear, hear!

4. Tony Piro

   “apple paid for the rights to the app”

   I don’t think Apple pays for the rights to the apps.

5. Pedro Molina.

   Nice post Paul.

6. Ted Rall

   It’s a race to the bottom, and Daryl is leading the charge. It’s sad, it’s immoral, and people should stop being afraid to say so.

   Also:

   Why do otherwise reputable cartoonists allow him to post their work in exchange for pennies? Listen up, cartoonists: If you don’t respect yourself, no one will ever respect you. Nor should they.

   Losers.

7. Stephen Beals

   I went to Go Comics, filled out a survey, and can now read (for free Free FREE) Ted Rall cartoons dating back to November 5, 1996.

   Loser.

8. Ted Rall

   Apples and oranges, Stephen. Totally different fruits. Archives vs. brand-new toons. If you don’t know the difference, I can’t help you. Except for one piece of advice: if you don’t know anything about a topic, don’t express an opinion about it in public. You obviously don’t know anything about the editorial cartooning business.

   Amazing how everyone’s all silent and stuff about the main point here.

9. Stephen Beals

   I’ll talk about whatever I want to publicly, Ted. Just like you do. Maybe we should all take a quiz before posting. Our grades could be posted above our responses..

   All I know is that I can read your current stuff for free online. It’s out there.

   This is your baby, so you’re excused for being you, but you just called your peers losers. So your fans are idiots?

   Here’s your advice from me: You’re too young to remain the grumpy old man you’ve become. The dying print market, like anything loved that’s dying, sucks. It really sucks. But you have to get past the mourning stage and actually do something. Raging against the wind isn’t working for you.

   At least gocomics, Cagle and others are trying to make a go of it in the new medium. Daryl Cagle has a positive enthusiasm for editorial cartooning that I don’t see anybody else displaying.

   Comparing Daryl’s app to a Craigslist ad is truly apples and oranges. Everything about it is progressive except for that whole “free” part. That’s your complaint and that’s what you should focus on instead of your attention-getting personal attacks.

10. Glen White

    “Amazing how everyoneâ??s all silent and stuff about the main point here.”

    No one’s being silent. The debate has just moved elsewhere, to more productive ground. No one wants to argue with the old, angry man anymore.

11. Ted Rall

    I don’t know how old you are, Glen. I assume you’re younger than me. If that’s true, I would never try to put you down by referring to your age. That’s called ageism, and it’s no more acceptable in public discourse than racism or sexism.

    If you wouldn’t use the N-word here, why would you use the O-word?

12. August J. Pollak

    I went to Go Comics

    Which unlike this app pays the artists. Did you have a point or just something “point-esque?”

13. Stephen Beals

    No.

14. Bill Stanford

    Getting back to the original subject here – Paul Fell makes a great point (no matter what his age is). Cartoonists and artists cannot make a living anymore being cartoonists and artists because the craft has lost the respect of prospective clientele. I wish everybody who wants art for nothing could read that craigslist posting above. Those are fantastic examples of the lunacy.