Google has upset many professional illustrators by asking them to contribute original artwork (to their specifications) for a project with its new browser in exchange for exposure.
“While we don’t typically offer monetary compensation for these projects,” the statement said, “through the positive feedback that we have heard thus far we believe these projects provide a unique and exciting opportunity for artists to display their work in front of millions of people.”
Google reported $1.42 billion in profits this last quarter alone.
Via Mark Fiore’s Twitter.
Ugh. Never EVER work for exposure alone. A company such as Google should be able to pay their clients very well. Too many people thing art is just a free thing. It can be if the project is a labor of love, but if it’s a professional client, there has to be a paycheck. Yet another company trying to screw artists over with promises of “exposure”.
Illustrators who participate in this scam undercut the profession and themselves for short term gain.
It used to be that the smallest, underfunded publications would ask for free cartoons and illustration in exchange for “exposure” you could build your career on. It only worked if bigger companies actually paid. Now everyone wants free labor. Why would another huge company pay you when they know you work for a multi-billion dollar corporation without compensation?
People die from exposure.
The kicker is the benefit of “exposure” won’t work unless the artist has his name, e-mail and phone number under the art work, like they would in any other product advertisement.
The bottom line is that the people who work and run Google are the same people (sadly, my generation) who grew up with the internet and with the notion of everything being free.
This idea has to change or many industries and professions are in BIG trouble.
“the people who work and run Google are the same people (sadly, my generation) who grew up with the internet and with the notion of everything being free. ”
and yet, somehow, Google manages to make billions
This ages old canard has been boasted recently by some unfortunately out of work editorial cartoonists that “hope” for work after doing it for free. I’m not saying it doesn’t work or belittling the effort but historically, it’s like a married man telling his mistress he’s going to leave his wife any day now. (see “THE APARTMENT” w/ Shirley MacLean, Fred MacMurray, Jack Lemmon)
But I can beat the Google insult. Try The White Houses’ request for volunteerism Oct. 19-26 promoted most recently by the NCS. Sounds innocuous enough but anytime the gov. calls for “national service” and “volunteerism” I see brown.
We’re not allowed to curse here. Right, Alan?
So I can’t comment about Google.
I like that word, “canard.”
It’s been used twice in a week on the Daily Cartoonist by two different people.
Canard is a French word for a duck, and is often used in English to refer to a deliberately false story, originating from an abbreviated form of an old French idiom, “vendre un canard à moitié,” meaning “to half-sell a duck.”
If you’re going to work for free, it probably shouldn’t be for someone who has the money to pay you.
Hey, Mike, You totally nailed it. For the last few months I’ve been doing work for a local TV station for free in “hopes” they would work out a way to pay through sponsorship. So far that has yet to materialize and so, here I am, guilty as charged and wondering how I’m going to bounce back after losing my job when the Rocky Mountain News closed. It seems that most everyone I contact, wants the work for free. To be honest I could use some advice about now on how to actually start to reinvent my career. I want to keep drawing. I’m making a go of this freelance thing. The problem right now is the “free”
“and yet, somehow, Google manages to make billions”
Exactly. They’re not giving THEIR services away for free. This nonsense is shameless and embarrassing.
Drew, I hate to hear this. Who doesn’t? If you’re work is good enough that there’s a demand for it (and there is) then it’s good enough to be compensated. But until the talented among us refuse to work for free, there’s no incentive to pay.
Clarification: I know I’m a blow hard but I’ve got the scars and years to help. Yes, I DID give away services or at least undersold in college and shortly after but the gray beards also told me the same thing and that was 1977. Nothing’s changed nor will it.
It’s bad. And it’s only going to get worse.
Brian hit the nail on the head. This generation that is now making their way into the business paradigm has a lot to do with the problem. Not all, but some. Music, art, it’s all there for you at a click of a button. Why pay for it?
Art is just not valued. Some assume that since creating art is fun, it shouldn’t be compensated in the same way you would pay someone to unclog your toilet.
Technology has made it easier for people who have a little talent and can dabble a bit in a software program or two, to cobble something together that looks passable and get the job done. I doubt most people have enough of a discerning eye to tell much difference between dabbler and pro when having the crutch of a couple bells and whistles in Photoshop.
Arts programs are nil in so many of our public schools. Is it any wonder?
I have a day job as a creative director, but I do a decent amount of freelance illustration work. I’ve noticed time and again that the client appreciates the final artwork more when they pay for the work to be completed. They realize the time and effort it takes to create an illustration and they can actually see a return on their investment — because they’ve made an investment.
As an artist, one must have the mindset to view how much his/her time is worth to them and charge accordingly. When I pass on a job that is free, I remind myself that I’m not losing any monetary compensation, but I’m definitely giving up on headaches and frustrations that almost always accompany “exposure”-type jobs.
I hope that readers will spread the word. A billion dollar charity should not ask for handouts. The more artists give their work away for free, the more it degrades the worth of our profession. (It took me a long time to figure that out, but I get it loud and clear now.) Just say no!!!
Doing free work for exposure is often necessary to break into the arts. I did it. Most cartoonists do. What I don’t understand is why anyone who has *already* broken in would do so.
In the previous post I meant to say that Google is a billion dollar company and NOT a charity.
It makes absolutely no sense. Even if they gave a token payment to the contributors for say, a $1000 each the expense outlay would be less than 25 grand.
I can almost guarantee the programmer working at Google who will design the face page makes three times that annually.
25K to Google is like .00025 of a penny to the rest of us.
It would be wonderful to see this backfire. If enough awareness is raised over this issue, google could end up looking like the fools they are for launching such a demeaning campaign against the illustration industry.
http://www.no-spec.com/
When spec is acceptable:
1. new biz pitch. Ad agencies do it everyday.
2. if you’re under 25 (we all did it)
3. job interview in order to demonstrate qualification
4. charity -preferably one in which you believe.
5. any common sense situational work that doesn’t keep you from finding paying work (family, friends, dogfighting club).
Anything else is undercutting not just the market but your own self worth, time and talent. My example goes back to ’77 but I’m pretty sure the sculptor of the Venus of Willendorf was promised some sweet regular gig that never came thru.
However, I’m less insulted by a private company asking that I work for free than the White House.
I would do free work to break in for companies/people I like – but if a company like Google that makes that much money can’t dish out a few bucks to an artist? Seriously?
I’m surprised Google didn’t call it a contest with the promise of compensation to the winner but with rights to use the artwork.
Daryl’s technology comment and Aaron’s investment comments hints that new cartoonist using free webcomic hosting sites to enter the market is a problem that may devalue the profession (??)
I suppose that fledgling cartoonists who offer their comics free online can be compared to young filmmakers who play their self-financed movies on You Tube with the hopes they’ll be “discovered” by a Hollywood producer.
I realize, of course, that there are many webtoonists who are perfectly content just to have a forum in which to share their comics, and harbor no illusions about being “discovered.” On the other hand, there are those (few?) who have found a way to actually make a real living “giving away” their comics.
Philip,
I wasn’t speaking about webcomics. That is a totally different animal.
My comments were directed towards the illustration market as it applies to advertising, promotion, product design, etc.
“‘and yet, somehow, Google manages to make billions’
Exactly. Theyâ??re not giving THEIR services away for free. This nonsense is shameless and embarrassing.”
Actually, the problem is that Google does give away 90% of the stuff they produce completely for free. Its a cultural difference that should not be dismissed.
Case in point, Google’s new free open source operating system, Android. Available this fall. Unix based.
Hmmm That’s MAC OS that’s Unix based. Linux which is Unix based. And now Android, which is Unix based. When is Microsoft going to take the hint?
“Actually, the problem is that Google does give away 90% of the stuff they produce completely for free. Its a cultural difference that should not be dismissed.”
Problem? From above: “Google reported $1.42 billion in profits this last quarter alone.”
When I make $1.24 billion a quarter, I’ll start giving away 90% of all sorts of things. Oh, and before I forget, what’s your point?
Typical GOOGLE….
If you knew who the owners are, we’d understand. On June 6, 2009, while others were honoring the anniversary of D-Day, GOOGLE, who usually honors holidays by altering their logo on their home page, decided to honor the anniversary of the video game Tetris…basically thumbing their noses at all D-Day vets, dead and alive.
I know it seem that what I just typed has nothing to do with the topic at hand, it does play a big part of their attitude.
As a veteran, because of their refusal to acknowledge American Military Holidays, yet honor other countries, I don’t use their search engine (MSN’s is much more current anyway) or other products.
Now they try and pull more nonsense.
Spec work is not exposure work.
I work on spec all the time, but I’m the one directly benefiting when the speculation pays off. I give away my work all the time, but I sell books to the hardcore fans who love that work and want to support me.
If Google were offering spec work I might take them up on it. Pay me in stock shares? Yeah, that might be above-board. But “exposure?” I’m a professional webcartoonist, not a complete idiot.
It’s a shameful act of Google’s part.
I meant ON Google’s part…
#6 Mike Lester: “anytime the gov. calls for â??national serviceâ? and â??volunteerismâ? I see brown.”
As in shirt,
or nose,
or both?
Mike Lester: â??anytime the gov. calls for â??national serviceâ? and â??volunteerismâ? I see brown.â?
Hey, I don’t believe in spec work, but come on, man. Do you have to consider every question from the vantage point of the far end of the right wing?
You want to go back and qualify “national service” or do you consider camo just another shade of “brown”?? (Yes, the military gets paid, but Peace Corps, Americorps, Teach America, etc. also get stipends. And I’ll leave it to YOU to go ask a vet if he did it for the money.)
A lot of people do volunteer work and a lot of people encourage it. Encouraging it from the White House isn’t much different than encouraging it from the pulpit or the principal’s office or whatever Scoutmasters speak from. I never knew it was a bad thing until you told me.
Anyway, I hope you live in the city. If your house catches fire out here, there ain’t nobody being paid to come put it out.
This little gray rabbit doesn’t work for free!!
I checked out iGoogle just now and one of the themes was “Animated Nemo.” It includes trademarked characters belonging to Disney/Pixar.
I bet Google paid for that one. And if they didn’t, I bet they will.
This left-winger agrees with Mike Lester: Volunteer work is for suckers.
The next time a charity asks for volunteer workers (or original cartoons to donate at auction), ask them whether they get free rent from their landlord, free office supplies from Staples and free stamps from the post office. Unless they say yes to all of the above, ask them why your work is worth less than the post office’s.
Hmmm… A little ironic to use a free YouTube video to lampoon the gall and idiocy of free work requests, but it certainly does a good job illustrating the point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY
This has been going on with iGoogle for a few years now, I’m kind of surprised it’s news all of a sudden.
Happy birthday, Tetris!
“A lot of people do volunteer work and a lot of people encourage it. Encouraging it from the White House isnâ??t much different than encouraging it from the pulpit or the principalâ??s office or whatever Scoutmasters speak from.”
Exactly.
I agree that what Google is trying to do is terrible for artists.
On the other hand, if you’re making comics for gocomics, and getting only 71 cents per comic (or whatever they make from ad revenue), is that much worse? If you PAY to have your comics on Comics Sherpa, isn’t that even worse than getting exposure for free?
Over the years I’ve been involved with charities and/or non-profits like PTA, Scouts, churches,etc. and the standard practice was to try to get things for free or at very reduced rates as often as possible. Many times art work was needed and it would be paid for, but when it was discovered I could draw I would contribute artwork for free. So though I’ve made T-shirts for my son’s Scout pack, since the artwork was donated, I can’t be called a T shirt salesman.
I just had to get that in there.
But free work for Google–oh no fickin way.
Some working campaign slogans:
“WORK IS BORE, JOIN OBAMA-CORP!”
“GET RIGHTEOUS WITH NATIONAL SERV-ICE!”
“DON’T BE A HOMO, VOLUNTEER FOR OBOMO!”
Needs work but giving back to your community is like totally cool.
Google and the White House aren’t alone:
“British Airways asks staff to work for nothing”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8102862.stm
In King Julian’s voice….
Free exposure? Wow. This Googly thingy sounds sort of silly.
Whoever heard of this word, “Googly” Is this a made up sort of a word? It sounds like someone who is “oogling”. I oogle, you oogle, we oggle. Mort stop with the oogling of the royal feet!
I once saw a strange lemur on the school corner wearing the trench coat, and he had a bag of candy. He got carted off to jail for this sort of Googly, oogling thing.
No, I do not not wish to google or oogle…
Not in a car, not on the street,
not in a house, not with my feet…
I would not, could not, in a box. I could not, would not, with a fox. I will not google them with a mouse. I will not google in a house. I will not google on my femur,,,I would not google with a lemur…
Mike, are you trying to equate private for-profit companies asking people to work for free (which I agree is ridiculous) to the Obama Administration encouraging Americans to volunteer for public nonprofit organizations in their communities?
I know you don’t like Obama, but that’s a stretch.
You can’t volunteer to somebody who’s in your pocket. Taxes are paid involuntarily. It’s a contradiction in terms.
I know you love Obama, but that’s a stretch.
>>>This left-winger agrees with Mike Lester: Volunteer work is for suckers.
For 10 years my wife and I were volunteer child advocates at a battered women’s shelter here in CT.
For 6 years my wife was a volunteer pregnancy counsellor for Planned Parenthood helping pregnant teens.
I give a free after school enrichment classes in cartooning once a week ,8 week sessions twice a year to 3rd and 4th graders in the public school in my town for the past 5 years.
For the past 6 years my 14 year old daughter and I volunteer for a special needs adults program (mentally handicapped) through a local Baptist Church (yeah I know we’re atheists but we haven’t burst into flames yet)
For the past 2 years my daughter has been volunteering at a local food bank and this summer is volunteering as a counselor at a community day camp for underprivileged kids.
I never realized what suckers we are.
Now I can see why you have a problem with Obama asking you to volunteer. He’s really asking you to work for nonprofits that you are already indirectly providing (very little) funding for through your taxes. Thatâ??s plain crazy. Whatâ??s in it for you, right?
“you are already indirectly providing (very little) funding for through your taxes.”
What’s crazy is a presumption of what I give in time or money. It’s no one’s business anymore than the governments. Why so in enamored w/ government all of a sudden? Didn’t it use to be fashionable to fight the power? Question authority? Why so easily led? And why is ABC NEWS broadcasting from the White House? Doesn’t that bother you?
Respecting the original thread, Google will never be able to involuntarily exact as much for nothing as your government.
google is nuts, sorry but it is. is like going up to a kids lemonade stand and asking for a picture of ade but saying how much sugar to put in and how many lemons to use. At the same time no offers to unknown cartoonists who could use some exposure. what gall.
Mike, I have an interest in Obama encouraging Americans to volunteer because my day job is raising money for community service programs who need volunteers. The kinds of programs youâ??ve been mocking in this thread.
In my job I regularly meet with program directors who are dying to get enough volunteers. I see the people who rely on the programs I raise money for. Youâ??re making an assumption that Iâ??m suddenly enamored with government or easily ledâ?? but the truth is, I have a personal and professional interest in volunteerism and community service programs.
Itâ??s fine if you donâ??t care about giving back to your community â?? or if you think itâ??s â??bleeding heart liberalâ? stuff. Hopefully you and your relatives will never have to use the services provided by human-service nonprofits.
Iâ??ll get back to the original thread as well…I think Google asking artists to work for just â??exposureâ? is crazy.
I shouldâ??ve not gotten involved in this political discussion. What can I say, it struck a chord with me. Iâ??m done.
Can we please skip the stupid strawmen arguments?
Whenever I have encountered this kind of “barter” proposal, I just throw it back at ’em….often asking what they would work for. Sometimes I ask the person dealing with me why they don’t do the artwork.
If I have to resort to the “You get what you pay for” cliche, I know I’m wasting time with a cheapskate.
Course, spec is different. Many in the entertainment industry are used to these types of reciprocal arrangements where there is some risk for potential rewards. Just get it in writing.
Mike Lester, it’s pretty clear how you feel about cartoonists doing pro bono cartooning, but how do you feel about cartoonists giving a day to work on, say, a Habitat house? Or going to a military hospital and drawing free cartoons for the wounded?
I wasn’t asked, but…
I would draw free cartoons for wounded soldiers.
I would not work on a Habitat for Humanity house. Jimmy Carter’s charity lets the government off the hook. We pay taxes. The government should make sure no one is homeless with the money we pay them.
But, Ted, the government DOESN’T make sure everyone has a home, and no one working (for pay) for Jimmy Carter’s charity is getting rich, so what’s wrong with those of us willing to give a little time doing so?
Mr. Rall is right – considering the confiscatory taxes Americans pay, the idea that someone is uncaring, uncompassionate or mean spirited for not volunteering is absurd.
I don’t have a problem with anyone wanting to do something for free, but when it is expected out of some ‘social duty,’ well screw that noise.
If my ‘volunteering’ is the answer to the less fortunate one’s ills, then what the hell am I surrendering 35% of my paycheck to taxes for?
And by the way, there’s not much I wouldn’t do for our soldiers, since I hypocritical govt. sure as hell isn’t doing much for them. When I think of those guys with body parts blown away while we hand AIG $500 billion, buy houses for the ‘underprivledged’ to ensure ‘economic justice’ and even pay terrorist states to NOT attack us, but allowing soldiers, sailors and marines needing food stamps!?
Peace Corps, Americorps and those other moronic programs can bite it – Until this $#@%& government takes care of our Marines, Soldiers Airmen and Sailors with missing legs, arms, eyes, freedom of movement and/or their surviving families, THEN they can ask someone else to do some civic duty. Til’ those @$$clowns can blow.
@ John #54,
“whatâ??s wrong with those of us willing to give a little time doing so”
Not a dang thing. I’m glad you feel the call to do so. No one would question your sincerity or judge your heart. But because I choose not to for equally good reasons, I shouldn’t be judged either.
“the government DOESNâ??T make sure everyone has a home”
Nor should they – no one has the right to a house, a car, internet access, health care, food, higher education, etc. etc. – the expectation that the govt. SHOULD provide these things is EXACTLY what crippled so many of these folks into not being able to provide for themselves; they have beent taught to be wards of the state and not self sufficient. More give-aways only makes the problem worse.
California is the best example. Once one of the greatest wealthiest states in the union resorted to ‘compassionate’ giveaways and now it is broke, bankrupt, can’t pay it’s bills and hundreds of thousands are leaving for other states. These things don’t happen by accident, y’know.
Soon we’ll have a ‘CaliforniaCorp.’
“Yes kids! Learn a third world language, travel to a third world country and volunteer to feed and clothe it’s helpless natives! In California! Wheee!”
Shane, one of the Habitat houses I worked on a couple of years ago was being built for an Iraqi veteran whose legs were blown off in George Bush’s war. The government which sent that man over there in the first place was nowhere to be seen the weekend my church’s group was there volunteering. Admittedly, I don’t know the reasons why this man with a wife and three kids didn’t qualify for federal assistance, but none of us there that day questioned whether or not we should be, even though we were all (if memory serves) tax-paying citizens. When I have volunteered my time and services in the past, it never occurred to me that since I pay taxes I shouldn’t have to help those less fortunate than I.
And, for the record, Shane, please believe that my argument for volunteering is, in no way, meant as some sort of judgment against you or anyone else. I’m just explaining why some of us choose to volunteer. I don’t look over my shoulder to see who’s not there, but, rather, to see who’s got my back.
Quite a few years ago, I was contacted by Google to do some work for no fee….just exposure. I figured working for King, United, Henson, WB, and Disney was plenty of exposure.
So, Guy, you didn’t want to expose yourself to Google?
Okay, maybe I need a gag writer. Oh…wrong thread.
John,
As I said, I am glad for anyone whose heart calls them to volunteer to do so. I wasn’t implying your motives were not sincere. And again, when it comes to those who fight wearing our nationâ??s colors, nothing makes me madder than to see a veteran get fisted by the government that sent him to fight in the first place. So your volunteer work for a soldier is admirable and rocks.
Where my ire rises is when I see Obama and like-minded ilk telling folks we need to volunteer civically and ‘give back’ when it comes to things like Hurricane Katrina, homeless shelters, free clinics, blah blah blah. It’s not that I wish ill on anyone, but dang it! You can’t have freedom without personal responsibility! So many millions are taking govt. entitlement checks that could (even if it is hard) get off their rumps and take care of themselves.
I have trouble getting up tears for folks who live in the most prosperous, wealthiest, opportunity-filled nation in the history of the Earth getting checks sitting on their butts â?? checks that come from OUR taxes.
There is NO way even a slim majority of entitlement recipients actually need those checks – no way. The truly needy, I believe, are probably 10% of those who are actually getting it.
All that to say if someone want to volunteer to help those kind out, fine. No hate here for you, that’s a conviction you have and it is admirable.
But the folks I am responsible for in terms of housing, food, health care, etc. are my family. And I am losing money I need for them and watching it fly away for trailers for folks 5 YEARS after the hurricane is gone, for food stamps for people making 40K a year, for welfare for folks who won’t stop having kids when they can’t feed what they have and millions more getting â??aidâ?? under similarly undeserving conditions.
You can volunteer to help that sort if you want, but my time is eaten up trying to do the best I can for those I am truly responsible for.
And for Obama or anyone else to suggest I need to do more when I am losing a 1/3 of my check to begin with for all those teat suckers…well, they can pound sand because it ain’t going to happen.
I appreciate your compassion, I truly do. And I too am concerned about who has my back. And I know who it is.
It’s the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, the 1st Cavalry Division, The USS Stennis Strike Group, the Air Force 2nd Bomb Wing and so forth…these are the guys who should be taken care of FIRST, because they are taking care of us and paying the price.
OK. End of rant.
>breathe inâ?¦breathe outâ?¦breathe inâ?¦breathe outâ?¦<
I think perhaps it would be a good idea to try and get the details on the deal before ranting about big, bad, evil corporation ripping of artists?
Also, why the ones who agreed to get the barter should be called “enemies”? Why beat some business sense into them? To me it seems like people with attitude “give me your money or go away” might be the ones lacking business sense.
Just asking, not trying to pass judgement on anyone without getting into details.
Alexander Lupenicky
June/17/2009
@ 4:24 am
I think perhaps it would be a good idea to try and get the details on the deal before ranting about big, bad, evil corporation ripping of artists?
Another good idea would be to read the story. We did. Your presumption those posting didn’t click the link to the NYTimes story at the top is incorrect.
The story isn’t even new. Gary Taxali gave Google the finger months ago. He even suggested charging more just for insulting him.
There’s no argument that Metzger and those like him are integral to the success and machinations of America. I not only don’t demean the effort but participate in my way in my community. But I DON’T DO IT AT THE BEHEST OF MY GOVERNMENT.
At the considerable risk of sounding ‘stockpiling weapons paranoid’, my fear is that a larger dynamic at work here -in corporate America and Government, is that Americans will slowly acquiesce toward working for nothing and wrongly expecting government take care of them.
O.K. after re-reading that, it did sound “stockpiling weapons crazy”. But I meant well.
IMO…People who get so hot and bothered over their taxes going to deadbeats should know by now that annual federal spending on social services is a tiny (1-3%) fraction of overall spending. Department of Defense annual spending, interest on our huge (and fast growing) national debt, and entitlement spending (Medicare, Medicaid) take up nearly 75% of the taxes Americans pay. It’s just easier to get lathered about deadbeats, so that’s what people do. If you want to ask a good question, ask why the US government cares so much about their soldiers and sailors and airmen/women BEFORE and during their enlistment, but so little about them after they return…injured, depressed, afraid, or just old. See Walter Reed. See Amvets. See Purple Heart donations to be sold at thrift store prices to pay for underfunded veterans programs. Don’t you think the bureaucrats could find some spare pennies or dollars out of the 100’s of billions of dollars appropriated EVERY YEAR to the Defense Department to pay for these services?
My hats off to all volunteers in all areas. I don’t care a whit about how anyone feels about their choice to act, including them.
The work needs to be done and waiting around for somebody else to do it is just not an option.
I don’t like Google either. They’re behind the Orphan Works Act too and that will really destroy the markets for creative work if it passes.
“IMOâ?¦People who get so hot and bothered over their taxes going to deadbeats should know by now that annual federal spending on social services is a tiny (1-3%) fraction of overall spending.”
Come and pay taxes in New Jersey, and then you can tell people not to get hot and bothered over their taxes.
heh, the deadbeats our taxes go to in Jersey, are government employees with several pensions and no show jobs.
Don’t forget Google Books. They’re destroying authors’ ability to make money.
John, you’re rightâ??the government doesn’t provide what people in dire straights need in order to get by. But volunteering allows them to waste our taxes on stupid wars. If nobody volunteered, misery would rise. Crime would go up. Political pressure would build until the government used our money for something useful or was overthrown.
Volunteers and charities prop up the system.
I can honestly say it NEVER occurred to me that my volunteering bolsters bad government.
If cartoonists and illustrators had a union like the doctors do with the AMA, these issues of would never come up.
The professionals would set the parameters, instead of the consumers or their proxies.
{ J Read…Likewise: I never considered that by filling sandbags and reinforcing levees in flood zones years ago that I was contributing to the breakdown of society. All I got was tired and dirty, but I’d do it again.
Oh, I wouldn’t do it if it were to benefit country club nihilists. I’d let the Randians do it themsleves. }
Mr. Strawman, right on time. A predictable mischaracterization and a not so subtle message that my posts are anti-volunteering. Never said it. I’ll dumb it down next time.
I volunteer to stay out of this.
There could be a silver lining in this and that would be if Google made a thousand art revisions to the artwork of all these wannabe artists that are participating. After making a million changes to their art for free they’ll think twice about volunteering for anything ever again.
Volunteerism appeals to the best in us, so I would never personally criticize someone who does it. I think it’s a bad idea, that’s all!
And I would never criticize someone for choosing NOT to volunteer, anymore than I would presume to criticize someone for not tithing.
—Another good idea would be to read the story. We did. Your presumption those posting didnâ??t click the link to the NYTimes story at the top is incorrect.
Mike, there was no presumption on my part. What I was talking about is to get the details (the real deal, what does really google offer, and how), not just what they say about it in the papers. I, for example, would be interested in what form will the exposure take. Will those skins be called after participating artists? Will chrome somehow automatically direct the user to artist’s web site? (add some more crazy fantasies) So far it’s the opposite of exposure (they even hold back the names of cooperating artists), and the said story says nothing, really. I want to hear both sides of the story before having an opinion. On google, on artists, on anything…
Leonardo da Vinci: â??The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.â?
Howard Roark would never volunteer to pay taxes…
Goodbye to the Boy Scouts. So long to recreational sports with unpaid coaches. And churches will only be open for an hour each Sunday — too many of their other programs are run by volunteers. Tithing? Forget it. If you’re paying taxes, you’re a sucker to volunteer to pay more to a church. And you pay taxes to support schools, so don’t be an idiot and take your kids for a walk or play catch in the backyard.
Look, in the early ’80s, I was in an Irish ballad group that had a firm policy that we did not play for free. We didn’t really care how much we were paid, but we wouldn’t play for free.
However, the Primate of Ireland, Tomas Cardinal O’Fiaich, came to Denver raising funds for a school in Northern Ireland, and we played at the fundraising concert for free.
Why? Because we stopped valuing our music? No. Because we weren’t a bunch of eejits and were fully capable of making a decision based on thought and consideration.
But that was us. Your situation could be different. If you’re really stupid and can’t think through a proposal, then you need to set a policy and by-god stick to it.
So, look in the mirror and figure it out for yourself.
Was that the Prelate or the Primate of Ireland? It took a hundred years for some people on these shores to stop thinking of the the Irish as monkeys, and you send it right back with a typo from he**
BTW Ted, volunteers may prop up the “system” but frankly, on the front lines most volunteers I know do not act in ways that regard the system at all. They act in response to need and need alone.
I have talked with my attorney, and he says to volunteer nothing.
“Primate of All Ireland is a title held by the Archbishops of Armagh, in both the Roman Catholic and Church of Ireland traditions, and signifies that within their respective churches they are the senior churchmen in the island of Ireland.” — Wikipedia
see http://tinyurl.com/lwkgls
Peterson, as they say in the Guinness ads, “BRILLIANT!!!”
I stand corrected, I guess. But they ought to get a new name.
John Read, email sent, please respond.
thanks
Anyone see the new Google art today?? a freaking bar code, which could have been downloaded from shutterstock. It’s hideous. You get what you pay for.